Late Nugz wishes we were still in the Metrodome! - 10.7.09
Well, now that we are out it seems like everyone is winning in the Metrodome these days. Maybe we should move back? Anybody with me? I know the Iowa fans will be missing those bathroom stalls.
- Hockey is coming up pretty quick and Coming Down the Pipe has their top 10 Hobey Baker Candidates. Minnesota's Jordan Schroeder comes in at #3 on this particular list.
- The Minnesota Daily claims that as long as the football program stays mired in mediocrity, Minnesota remains a hockey state. Personally I don't fully agree. The coverage and the overall excitement of the general population is vastly different between say when the Gopher basketball team makes a Final Four run than it is when Gopher hockey wins a national championship. We are the state of hockey and hockey fans here are incredibly passionate. But my personal opinion is that hockey, even in Minnesota, is a niche sport.
- Sticking with hockey, College Hockey News has the Gophers as their preseason 6th best team in the country.
- The Badgers are a very quiet undefeated football team. The Chicago Tribune takes notice.
Five computers used in the BCS formula collectively rate the Badgers sixth in the nation, according to BCS guru Jerry Palm. And yet the Badgers have not cracked the AP Top 25.
This week they travel to Ohio State and we'll get to see the real Badgers. - UM Hoops is taking a look at the Big Ten and he got some help from Jonathan over at From the Barn as he takes a look at the Gophers.
- Bucky's 5th Qtr takes a look at what the Badgers did to slow down Decker in the second half of the last weekend's game.
- These guys over at Big 10 Football Tour visited TCF Bank Stadium for the Cal game and here is the lengthy recap of their Gopher gameday experience.
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Hockey is treated as a niche sport
by the media because it supports their belief that hockey is a niche sport. I’d enjoy trying to sell that argument every night of the week at the Roseville Ice Arena where hundreds of 2-4 year olds are learning to ice skate.
That’s the same argument that’s made about soccer – that it’s a niche sport, despite the fact that it’s the largest participatory sport among youths in this country.
In Minnesota, hockey is anything but a niche sport. On any Friday or Saturday night across this state, you can find crowds at Mariucci, in Duluth, in St. Cloud or in Mankato for college hockey games that easily dwarf what the Timberwolves draw per game at the Bullseye. I’m not even mentioning the 18,000 fans at the X for every Wild game. Do you want to argue pro basketball is a niche sport in Minnesota?
Hockey is not a niche sport, not here. Despite what Brewster thinks, universities and teams can’t control what the local media talks about. If the Gophers were to win the hockey national title, they would lead the newscasts. How do I know this? Because it happened in 2002 and 2003. How can you call that a niche sport?
by JG2112 on Oct 7, 2009 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Minnesota has the largest AAU basketball program in the country
participation is huge in basketball as well. Go down to any gymnasium that has multiple courts just about every weekend of the year and you’ll find a youth AAU tournament.
Attendance is a different story, but that is partly due to the passion among hockey fans. There is no denying that they love their hockey and comparatively basketball fans are much more fickle. The Wolves do hold the NBA record for season attendance so it’s not like
But I’ll argue again that if Gopher hockey wins a national championship and Gopher basketball makes the Final Four, more people will care about Gopher basketball.
mostly this is all about perception. Basketball fans think their sport is the biggest and hockey fans think the same. It is a meaningless argument and just this basketball fan’s opinion.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're getting the arguments confused here.
We’re not arguing about whether hockey’s more popular than basketball or baseball or football. Those are legitimate arguments to have, with good points available on all sides.
But calling hockey a “niche” sport is wrong. It receives scads of major-media coverage, every game – college and pro – is on widely-available TV, games around the state sell out – again, both college and pro – and it’s probably the best-attended high school sport in the state. Tens of thousands of people play it recreationally, from youth through over-50 adult.
Feel free to argue that it’s less popular than basketball. But “niche”? I disagree, and don’t think you have much of an argument to make.
by Jon Marthaler on Oct 7, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s regional for sure though, in Florida it would be a whole different story.
"they're calling insane hogs???"
by CrowTrobot on Oct 7, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think some people here think that since it’s not covered extensively all over America that it somehow diminishes it and makes it “a niche sport”. I think it depends on your whole point of view. Kind of like the whole Darth Vader betraying and killing Luke’s father.
"they're calling insane hogs???"
by CrowTrobot on Oct 7, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hockey is not
a niche sport. Curling is a niche sport. The problem Hockey has is that it is expensive to play. Outside of being able to play for damn near free during winter, the rest of the year is extremely prohibitive. Basketball can be played during winter for a lot less than Hockey during the summer. But look outside on a winter day at any park or pond and you will see kids playing hockey.
I have to hunt for hockey coverage, while I can get bludgened to death with all of the other sports.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GN
This was your quote:
But my personal opinion is that hockey, even in Minnesota, is a niche sport.
We’re not arguing “what’s biggest in the USA,” because I’m pretty sure more youth play hockey in MN than any other state except MAYBE New York.
You said hockey was a niche sport in Minnesota. That completely trashes the bond and importance hockey has in non-metro communities, such as Warroad, Grand Rapids, the Shattuck St. Mary’s teams. Not to mention the sheer numbers of kids who play the sport in this state. Like Evil Professor said below.
by JG2112 on Oct 7, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fine I won't back down!!!
it is a niche sport and that doesn’t take away anything from the fact that this is the biggest hockey state in the country. Just because kids play it all over the place does not mean there isn’t a significant portion of the population (even in Minn) that just does not care about hockey.
It is a great sport, it is something Minnesota can claim or identify with. I’ve come to appreciate it much more over hte last few years. But people inside the hockey circles don’t get that the rest of the world and even the rest of the state don’t care nearly as much as they do.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by rest of the world
you are eliminating quite a bit of northern Europe, and the not insignificant hockey of Canada, you’re right.
There is just as much a segment of the population that doesn’t care about baseball or basketball that doesn’t care about hockey. There’s no way to quantify it so we’re just setting up a strawman.
You can’t make me feel bad for deciding to cover hockey at TDG. You can’t do it!! My hockey voice will be heard.
by JG2112 on Oct 7, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOOD
I don’t dislike hockey, I love Gopher hockey and I want it covered (because hockey fans are crazy passionate about their sport).
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
by niche I mean...
people who don’t particularly care about basketball or baseball will generally still have a passing interest in what happens. People who don’t care much about hockey will usually pay very little if any attention to it. That’s my take on it.
Nascar has a massive following is covered nationally, but you can’t tell me it isn’t a niche sport. In Minnesota it is more than a niche sport, but nationally I still think that is accurate.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The issue is that
in Minnesota, it is very difficult, especially outside the metro areas, to go into a smaller to midsize town and find someone who doesn’t pay attention to hockey.
If I search enough in Roseville / Falcon Heights I’ll find a group of people who don’t care much about hockey, it can be done. But that’s because there are tens of thousands of people there. Then again, I’ll find people who don’t care about basketball or baseball either, but I’m not going to belittle their sport, I’m just going to watch what I like.
The same cannot be said about hockey in Warroad.
by JG2112 on Oct 7, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I like this argument
Would you argue that college football is a niche sport in Maine? Because I would argue it is there.
by JG2112 on Oct 7, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do too
:)
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright you like this... :)
Hockey fans are like the Green Party
Those inside are very passionate about their party and kind of crazy. But everyone else (Republicans, Democrats, undecideds) only care to a minor degree. Rep/Dem will pay plenty of attention to what the other is up to, but unless something MAJOR comes out of the Green Party they don’t give it much time.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 12:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
JG = Ralph Nader
or maybe replace Green Party with Libertarians and then JG = Ron Paul
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about this
Kind of like GN’s latest take, I think beyond Football, Baseball, and Basketball any other sport would be a niche sport. Because in those sports when something big happens even the casual sports fan will pay attention even when it’s not their own team. I think most sports fans really don’t give the Stanley cup much thought unless the Wild are in it. I’m a big Gopher Hockey fan never miss a game, but if the Gopher’s are not in the playoffs I’m not going to watch. But I will watch the Bowl games and the Super Bowl and the NBA Finals
"they're calling insane hogs???"
by CrowTrobot on Oct 7, 2009 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's what I'm talking about
maybe NICHE was the wrong word.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 7, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On that note
Basketball, Football, Hockey and baseball are all global niche sports. Because according to the rest of the world…soccer reigns supreme. I say soccer and not “football” for a reason. Ask anyone what kind of ball do they play “football” with and they will say……drum roll please….a soccer ball. (sorry about the mini rant).
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basketball is #2 worldwide
It might be far behind soccer, but it is #2.
by Ski U Mah Gopher on Oct 7, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, a counter-point.
In 2003, when the Wild reached the Western Conference finals against Anaheim, the games were regularly drawing a 67 share on local television. In other words, of all the people in the local area that had their TVs on, two-thirds were watching the Wild.
In other words, I don’t buy the argument that casual fans don’t care what’s going on with the local hockey teams.
by Jon Marthaler on Oct 7, 2009 12:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess I wasn't clear
I think Minnesota fans care about all the local teams, but when OUR Hockey teams are not in the playoffs they do not watch. I would guess the share would be at best 8 to 12
"they're calling insane hogs???"
by CrowTrobot on Oct 7, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's True With Any Sport
I didn’t watch any baseball playoffs last year, hardly any of the NFL playoffs and I didn’t even watch the SB, and I could care a less about pro basketball since the Wolves suck. When your team is out, the ratings will crash in that area regardless of the sport.
by Narby on Oct 7, 2009 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree with you, just look at the ratings for the Super Bowl. You could almost make the argument that the NFL is the only real “mainstream” sport.
"they're calling insane hogs???"
by CrowTrobot on Oct 7, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that may be true
but the reasons a lot of people will watch the superbowl are as follows:
1. Good reason to get hammered with your buddies and eat a lot of food (kind of like a second Thanksgiving).
2. Your team is in the Superbowl
3. You don’t really like sports but like seeing the new commercials (this is sadly a lot of the viewer numbers).
I would wager that there are very few “purists” who just have to watch the game for the game itself.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Case in point
How often do we talk about hockey on this board? Hardly ever. You could say that is because the people who are on here aren’t huge hockey fans—but why is that? They live in Minnesota, yet hardly talk about hockey the way we do Gophers football and basketball. I know that GN would love to have more hockey coverage on this board (after all, hockey is supposedly the most popular and successful sport at the U), yet he has had trouble in the past finding someone passionate enough about it to cover it to the same extent that we cover football and basketball.
I actually agree with GN that it is a niche sport even in Minnesota. Sure, you could FIND people that have all sorts of different opinions. But I would venture to guess that even in this state, more people are dedicated to watching Gopher football and basketball, Twins and Vikings than Gopher or Wild hockey.
I’ll admit that the Wild are probably more popular now than the Timberwolves, but only because they are so God awful. BUT, when the Wolves drafted Ricky Rubio, I guarantee that made more people care about basketball than anyone the Wild could have drafted. If the Wolves do sign Rubio, I think the Wolves/Wild argument may shift back to the Wolves.
Okay, so maybe niche isn’t quite the right word, but I still think it ranks 4th on the list behind baseball, football, and basketball. If the Wolves weren’t so bad, I would even say it would be a distant 4th.
by rencito on Oct 8, 2009 7:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
people should talk hockey here
we will do a better job of covering hockey here, I promise. And by “we”, I mean JG.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Oct 9, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way...
I should mention that I do like hockey. I’m not trying to bash it in any way. I just know what I observe (and of course my observation isn’t clinical, none of ours are—we don’t have random samples, but it is an observation nonetheless).
by rencito on Oct 8, 2009 7:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hockey = Niche Sport
Here’s why I agree: 1 He’s right about how the widespread frenzy a final four creates versus a hockey championship. 2 Hockey has some of the most dedicated and crazy fanbases, but beyond that, it lacks widespread appeal from casual fans. Just look at the number of ncaa basketball march madness pools at work (where people I never thought were much of any sports fan come out of the woodwork). Many of those same people don’t give a rip about hockey playoffs.
by Tubtastic on Oct 9, 2009 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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