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Here's What Tubby Misses About UK (NOT!!!)

Updated: 7:15 AM ET Sun, Apr. 12, 2009 Comments (35) |  Recommend (0) UK basketball notebook: Tubby's top critic is crazy for Coach Cal

Leader of anti-Smith campaign calls new hire 'a grand slam'

By Jerry Tipton / herald-leader staff writer Jerry Tipton

Richard Cheeks, the adjunct professor who made waves by calling for then-Kentucky coachTubby Smith to resign three years ago, is a happy fellow these days.

"How could any UK fan not be happy today?" he said last week.

Cheeks approved of the hiring of Billy Gillispie, remains puzzled by Gillispie's firing after two seasons and now thinks Kentucky basketball has a bright future.

"In my opinion, Gillispie is an upgrade from Tubby Smith," Cheeks said. "But this is who they should have hired two years ago. Calipari is a home run. It's a grand slam home run. ...

"He's been there. He's done it. He has instant name recognition. He has instant credibility in the basketball community with players and recruiting."

Cheeks took notice of former Calipari player Marcus Camby admitting to taking $28,000 from agents, of UMass being stripped of recognition for making the 1996 Final Four, of questions about player discipline.

"I have had some concerns, as any fan might," Cheeks said. "But I believe the NCAA would have pursued John Calipari if John Calipari was dirty. To say he's dirty or somewhat guilty is a stretch."

To review: Cheeks served as spokesman for a loosely configured group calling itself, somewhat redundantly, "Concerned Fans for UK Basketball." During the 2006-07 season, the group tried to place an advertisement in the UK student newspaper, The Kernel, calling for Smith to resign for the good of the program.

Smith resigned after the season and took the coaching job at Minnesota, a move he said reflected his wish to go where he was wanted. The Concerned Fans disbanded.

That Smith has led a startling turnaround in Minnesota basketball, punctuated by a bid to this year's NCAA Tournament, made little impression on Cheeks.

"I think that's all smoke and mirrors," he said.

When reminded that Minnesota beat Louisville, the overall No. 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament, on a neutral floor early in the season, Cheeks said, "I was not impressed." Louisville's play throughout the season did not justify a No. 1 seed, he said.

"Tubby's a good coach, but he's not a great coach. He'll never ever be able to grasp the brass ring again.

"No player he ever coached and recruited ever played in the Final Four. And for Kentucky, that's not acceptable. That was the whole point."

With Smith's players advancing to the 2003 and 2005 region finals representing failure, the conversation shifted to Gillispie.

Cheeks noted his mixed emotions, which include empathy.

"I think he's a good coach, and I think he had the program headed in the right direction," Cheeks said. " ... It's sad. I feel sorry for the guy.

"If he was fired because of basketball performance issues, not winning enough, then I don't think he had enough time to really build his program. ... I think he got a raw deal."

The official reason cited by UK Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart and school president Lee Todd — that Gillispie was a "bad fit" — is a vague concept for Cheeks to grasp.

"Bad fit doesn't really justify firing," he said. "It might justify a mutual parting of ways. I don't think bad fit necessarily justifies firing for cause."

UK fans, whom Barnhart and Todd cited as a crucial foundation for the basketball program, deserve a candid explanation for Gillispie's firing, Cheeks said.

Editors of The Daily Gopher retain the right to remove posts deemed excessively offensive or grossly inappropriate. Keep it clean and don't be mean.

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Is this guy a raciest?

He sure sounds like it.
Here’s my feelings..
For years Kentucky WAS THE basketball program in the nation. But other teams have gotten stronger and some Kentucky fans can’t live with being less than the best. They would complain if they were in the “Final Four” every year but didn’t win it all every year.
Face it, other teams and schools have caught up with Kentucky in basketball. Kentucky will have a good team with Calipari, no doubt about that and I don’t wish any ill on the team but the fans have to learn that as with every program, the success wanes and rises each year. You can’t be at the top every year. I hope Cheeks realizes that before he dies or he will die a bitter and confused UK fan.

by COJOMAY on Apr 12, 2009 1:10 PM CDT reply actions  

no.

he’s not a racist. Just because this guy is in the south does not make him racist if he didn’t like a coach who happened to be black.

oh, and Kentucky fans (except for a very small vocal minority) completely understand that the team won’t reach the final four every year. Yeah, we like basketball. A lot. Probably more than most folks. But we aren’t the rabid, idiot fans we are portrayed to be … It’s really just a big mixture of not having pro teams (any), a long history/tradition, and generally nothing else to do. Besides, UK, bourbon, and horse racing are about all we have …

by shavit on Apr 12, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Coal

Plus Toyota (plant in Georgetown).

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 13, 2009 6:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

i should have been more clear ...

I just don’t think coal and another factory or corporation is really something people in KY are really all that proud of …

i know i’m not.

by shavit on Apr 13, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

no, i shouldn't.

money does not equal pride, and no one should be proud of strip-mining.

by shavit on Apr 14, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just for your info Shavit...

I live in Kentucky and I know that all people who live in KY, or the south, are not racist. I wasn’t making a sterotypical comment.
And, but the way I do like the coal plants. We have the cheapest electricity in the US thanks to clean burning coal.

by COJOMAY on Apr 14, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

okay ...

you didn’t give any reasons for why you asked whether he was a racist. Seeing none myself, i figured you jumped to conclusions … my bad. It did seem like an odd question to ask though …

as for the coal. There is no such thing as “clean coal”. it’s an idea that’s never been tested, and is only in the beginning stages of research/planning. It is being put out to the community as a viable alternative to actual clean technologies, but really just consists of trapping the negative aspects of coal burning plants in underground tanks. It’s a silly idea that is wholly unnecessary given the availability of other forms. It’s also just about the most dangerous idea one can imagine in terms of the potential environmental disasters that could result. All it would take is one tank to break …

As for the cheapest electricity … yeah we do. but we more than make up the cost for that in the negative health and environmental effects. If we were to actually put the cost of coal on society back on to the mining companies, it would be the most expensive source of power by far.

by shavit on Apr 14, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

a common misconception

I wouldn’t really say I have a favorite team in college basketball, I love to watch every team and every game I can every year. there’s typically a few teams each year that I think r better than others, I generally like players and coaches. I’ve been hearing alot about uk’s unreal expectations and how other teams have now caught up with them. I’ve only been watching it for 30 years, but its always been a pretty level playing field. even in 96,97,98 when they very well couldve 3peated, there were other teams capable of winning it all. so I really don’t think they need to face the fact that other teams can all of a sudden play 2. it’s been that way for a long time. I think calipari was a great hire for uk. I think between his ability to recruit and his fast paced offense and full court pressure defense, he brings back the style of play that made uk so fun to watch in the 90s. I think tubby slowed it down & took that away from uk, and there was a significant drop off in recruiting from pitino to tubby. I also agree that he is a good coach but not a great one, and if your happy being in the middle of the pack, tubby would be your guy. watching uk recently I was confused by gillispie. I’d seen what he’d done under bill self and on his own at utep and a&m, but I thought they rushed into it after being turned down by donovan. I seen strange rotations and subs with gillispie. outside of patterson & meeks, you could see players in 1 game and different ones in the next. they played good man to man, but I never seen any zone. the result was a team who led the sec in fg%,def. fg%, t1st in rebs. and 8-8 in their conference. between turnovers and giving up so many off boards, they cancelled out some of the good things they were doing. that’s on the players & the coaches. I don’t doubt gillispie couldve corrected those things, but if a team feels like they made a mistake and know they can get a calipari, I understand. that’s buisness 101. I love college basketball and I could watch a calipari coached team play all day long. the sec got a nice coaching upgrade this offseason, not just uk, and I think there’s gonna be some good competitve basketball in years to come. of course uk wants to win championships, so does everybody else, but it takes time to bring in your own guys and inccorporate your own system. I think uk will b happy just competing for championships again, if they win some even better, but it is ridiculous to assume that if they make a final four every year and don’t win, they’d call for anybodys head. to say such a ridiculous thing you’d have to be a disgruntled, insecure fan who feels threatened by the combination of john calipari and the university of kentucky. that’s a shame, cause it can only help college basketball.

by ksanders7 on Apr 12, 2009 3:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Baloney On Recruiting Dropoff

Pitino signed 2 straight lackluster classes in 1996 and 97 when UK was on top of the heap.

Tubby signed 2 straight Top 5 classes in 1998 and 99 plus 2 more Top 10 classes in 2000 and 01.

He further signed #1 class in 2004 and 2 Top 15 classes in 2002 and 06.

Plus he had Patterson and Jai Lucas ready to sign in 2007.

Hogwash about recruiting.

More BS from an Anti-Tubby moron.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

but ...

you have to admit that there were SOME questionable recruiting decisions … Saul, Shagari, Carter … His tendency to try to develop big men did sometimes backfire.

by shavit on Apr 12, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Saul Was GA All-State Guard

Not questionable there.

Alleyne was among the highest rated C who went to college in 2003 (many went into NBA draft). He was Top 50 rated and among the few players EVER to make All-NYC 3 straight years.

Carter was recruited by North Carolina (among others).

Tubby developed (Big F or C) Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett, Jamaal Magloire, Erik Daniels, Tayshaun Prince, and Randolph Morris into NBA players.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 13, 2009 6:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

boo ...

We can leave the question of saul up to personal opinion. (you think he was great, i think he … well … shouldn’t have been recruited. especially since he was the coach’s son and playing out of his league.) By the way, we have quite a few “all-state” guards right here at home that shouldn’t play at UK either … speaking of all state guards, not recruiting Chris Lofton was a slip up too.

Shagari also acted like he was afraid of the ball and terrified of being touched. If he was good at all it was because he was 7-3 (especially in high school). You can’t teach that. But really, he rode the bench for most of his career and then transferred. Just because they are “rated” does not make them a good choice. He couldn’t step away from the basket and shoot, couldn’t pass … hell, he could barely hold himself upright …

Carter, again, afraid of his own shadow. Things could have been different, and really, i blame Gillespie for this one. Still, he was tall, not good. The talk when he was recruited was that he would take A LOT to develop … the fact that UNC made the same mistake doesn’t make it better.

I didn’t say Nazi, Padgett, Magloire, Daniels, Prince, or Morris were bad at all. But you have to admit, all of those guys were really quite good BEFORE they came to UK. In other words, they had solid basketball talent (shooting, passing, etc.) to build on – yes, i’m even putting Scott Padgett in this category. There was very little to develop. Tubby just refined the skills they had. Oh, and Padgett, Nazr, and Magloire were all recruited by Pitino and spent the majority of their careers with him.

Don’t get me wrong forty, i like tubby. I think he was a hell of a coach. But he did make SOME (as in not all) silly decisions on the recruiting front. That’s all i was saying.

by shavit on Apr 13, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Never Said "Great"

But he was a good player at UK.

Shagari had potential but never realized it. UNC wanted him in 2002 before he signed with UK.

Ditto Carter. UNC tried to sign him in 2005 before UK did.

Every coach makes SOME poor decisions.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 14, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

is that what you argue with? ...

Saul = whatever. i already said we can agree to disagree.

both of the things you’ve said about Shagari and Carter i already talked about … “the fact that UNC made the same mistake doesn’t make it better” + “tall” does not equal “good”. Tall may well equal potential, and for that, again, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

as for the last statement … yeah, so we agree? You said:

“Hogwash about recruiting.

More BS from an Anti-Tubby moron."

I was merely pointing out one particularly recurring point against tubby concerning recruiting. (SOMETIMES he made bad decisions = not all of it’s hogwash)

by shavit on Apr 15, 2009 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Hogwash and BS are correct.

We agree on that point.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 15, 2009 3:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

so we agree ..

that … “all coaches make some bad recruiting decisions” + “tubby coaches basketball” = Tubby made some bad recruiting decisions … which means people who complained about tubby’s recruiting had a point on at least SOME of his decisions.

again, i like tubby. But he did make SOME piss poor decisions … whether the balance was against him is really up to personal opinion, wouldn’t you agree?

(oh, and yet another post defending Tubby’s less than stellar recruits is really uneccessary … i already know you supported every one of his decisions.)

by shavit on Apr 16, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

No Doubt ALL Coaches Make Bad Recruiting Choices

Aminu Timberlake. Carlos Toomer. Oliver Simmons. Ryan Hogan. Myron Anthony. Just 5 of Pitino’s bad recruiting choices.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 17, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty Clear

Re-read it if necessary.

Even your DNA Slurpee (Pitino) made mistakes recruiting at UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 18, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

out of those three?

Bradley. no question.

He was never consistent. Crawford could score, Rondo is … well, Rondo. Bradley was a question mark all the way up to the mid point of his senior season.

The value of Lofton over the same four years is just no comparison.

by shavit on Apr 15, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bradley
  1. prep school G in 2004. Rated better (higher) than Lofton.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 15, 2009 3:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

again ...

again, ratings (at least to me) don’t really mean much. Lofton was a pure shooter, and an excellent candidate for UK basketball (really, really wanted to play for UK, knew about the school/tradition, and worked his tail off .. and shot threes). Bradley was a point guard who couldn’t pass the ball …

by shavit on Apr 16, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bullshit

UK signed 3 better guards in 2004 than Lofton.

Any of the 3 would have mirrored his results at UT.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 17, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

obviously not ...

judging by how they actually did in college. Crawford couldn’t be bothered to play defense. Bradley was erratic at best until the final 10-15 games of his senior year.

Rondo was better. But the other two … nah.

Lofton on the other hand owns the SEC three point record.

oh, and watch the language/tone.

by shavit on Apr 18, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tone And Language Were By Choice

Either Crawford or Bradley would have comparable results at UT. Lofton got free reign by himself. UK had more talented teams.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 18, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's a joke, right?

all of this nonsense just to keep from admitting Tubby made a mistake? You’re statement about crawford and bradley doing just as well at UT is ridiculous. We can’t know, so don’t bring it up. Besides, neither were anywhere near as good at shooting the ball as lofton. (and don’t you think Lofton would have been given free-reign to shoot at UK? he did hit an awful lot of threes … seems like a better team could have gotten him open even more.)

and still … watch the tone. kids get on this website. you aren’t hurting me. (in other words, act your age, because their are others in this world)

by shavit on Apr 18, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

Rondo is the best of those guards. Either Crawford or Bradley could have done what Lofton did at UT, given free reign like he had there.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 19, 2009 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saul sucked ass

I saw it first hand, he was there when I was in school at UK. He got the ladies though.

Carter’s constant shoulder injuries never allowed him to have a chance.

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 16, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

he sure did ...

single worst point guard in UK history. Well, Porter challenged him, but Porter is a fine kid who got put in a bad spot.

In the end, i think you are right on Carter. Those first few injuries really took the wind out of his sails. His size mixed in with a little development and muscle gain could have turned him into a solid center.

by shavit on Apr 16, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Horse Crap

Saul was back-up or starting PG on 4 UK teams – 1 won NCAA title. 3 won SEC titles. 3 won SECT championships. His teams averaged 27.5 W (more than Pitino’s team) at UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 17, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

Joined TDG today.

Hmm. Imagine that.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Way to go...

Forty Year Cat Fan. I LOVE reading your posts. They are always insightful and usually right on the money.

by COJOMAY on Apr 12, 2009 7:07 PM CDT reply actions  

Welcome!!!

Welcome Forty Year Cat Fan. I LOVE reading your posts on ASeaOfBlue. Lets get ready for a great season!

by NYC Gopher on Apr 13, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Cheeks is an idiot for sure

The fact he is puzzled by Billy G’s firing only proves it even more. The problem is, why is Tipton going to him for a story? This guy had his 15 minutes a few years ago, move on.

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 16, 2009 7:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Here's a question Forty ...

I just noticed that you were the one who posted this article in the first place … with this heading “Here’s What Tubby Misses About UK (NOT!!!)”. The subject of the article and your heading lead me to believe that you are criticizing UK fans. I wonder, do you really think UK fans are all that bad? Even more, do you really think Richard Cheeks is all that bad?

Of course, i wonder this because you seem to devote a substantial amount of time to following UK basketball and offering your opinions about it. It seems odd that you would criticize another fan for offering their own opinion (or at least degrade them when they do).

So really, what provokes a fan of UK basketball to go on to another team’s website and post a negative portrayal of UK fans? Just curious is all …

by shavit on Apr 16, 2009 11:43 PM CDT reply actions  

And Shavit...

What causes you to go on another team’s site and rip it’s coach and your home state?

by COJOMAY on Apr 17, 2009 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

He does it here

Becuase Tru won’t let him do it at ASOB.

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 17, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think you may be right.

even as much as Tru indulges him …

by shavit on Apr 17, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I State Facts Both Places

Tubby discussions are not permitted (there).

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 17, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I Think

Cheeks is a racist and a moron.

I think some UK fans are racists and some are morons.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 17, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

apparently you ...

misunderstood what i’ve said. I like tubby. I think he is a fine man and a good coach. I was merely pointing out to forty that he wasn’t beyond criticism in his recruiting. In a sense, i was defending UK fans concerning their perceived “Hogwash” and “BS”.

In fact, this is what i said: “Don’t get me wrong forty, i like tubby. I think he was a hell of a coach. But he did make SOME (as in not all) silly decisions on the recruiting front. That’s all i was saying.”

As for my home state, what did i say that could be considered a “rip”? Did you take my criticism of strip-mining and the foolish idea of “clean coal” as a “rip”? How is criticizing my state’s use of its resources within the context of a conversation (remember, i did not come over here and post an article about strip mining) a bad thing?

by shavit on Apr 17, 2009 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

UK Fans

Many did not respect Tubby after 1998.

Some did not respect him in May 1997.

I grew up in the state of KY. I know the racism exists.

Ask ANY black player at UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 17, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

you didn't answer the question ...

yeah, kentucky has racists. They also have antisemitics, misogynists, etc. So does Minnesota, California, New York, and every place in between. In fact, just to drive that point home, two of the largest and most prolific (quantity, obviously not quality) publishing houses for hate drenched drivel are located in Minneapolis.

But the question was why you posted this on this site? No matter why, you posted this as an attack on UK fans on another fan’s site … i’m just curious is all. Even more so since you are making it out to be a fight against racism.

But here’s another question: So what was racist about the remarks made by richard cheeks? have you ever met the man?

by shavit on Apr 18, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Kentucky Has Higher % Of Racists

Than any of those 3 states you named.

I give a crap about meeking Dick Cheeks.

His nickname (not Richard) is quite appropriate.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 18, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

What figures do you have to back that up?

It’s simply not true. besides, what does % have to do with anything? Do you actually believe that California doesn’t have a serious problem with racism? Really?

in any case, you take this too seriously. It’s quite sad really. think about it: without having met someone you’ve called them a racist, given him a derogatory nickname (at least in your contextual use), and called him an idiot. All this over criticism of a basketball coach. It’s a sad little world you live in, isn’t it?

By the way, you still haven’t answered the question? Nor did you answer what was racist about richard cheeks?

by shavit on Apr 18, 2009 10:20 PM CDT reply actions  

I Lived There 24 Years

KY has a higher % of racists than the 3 states you named. Period.

Richard Cheeks is a Dick.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 19, 2009 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bad post above -- You simply don't have to go back very far to see the racism in KY

Rupp was a huge racist and no one denies that. Many people feel that naming an arena after him when every knew his views on blacks help carry on a lot of his racist traditions in the state. I don’t think it shows up as much in other sports or the general public, but many fans think Rupp was “god” in Kentucky and therefor many of the hateful policies he had continues in the minds of many fans. I interact with LOTS of people in my position and I see racism expressed a lot without people actually showing their views publically. It’s very much under the surface, and with militias being formed left and right in Kentucky, racism is coming to the surface more and more.
But you probably don’t see the militia problem either.

by COJOMAY on Apr 20, 2009 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

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