Will Minnesota Fans Take Advantage of a 'Home Game'
by PJS on Mar 17, 2010 8:09 AM CDT
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PrintOne of the first reactions that many Minnesota fans had when hearing that the Gophers would play Xavier in Milwaukee was that it was essentially a home game for the local team.
That apparent advantage is even being discussed nationally, and was on the mind of the NCAA Selection Committee, as you can see in this Andy Katz column. This is great, right? Well, maybe.
From everything I've heard, getting tickets is next to impossible, even for some season ticket holders. So, for many who might want to attend, they'll have to go the extra mile to get themselves tickets. They'll have to wake up early Friday morning or leave Thursday night for Milwaukee, without ticket in hand, and head to the Bradley Center to scalp tickets. Not the biggest deal in the world, but a disincentive for sure to many.
I'm very curious to see how many Minnesota fans do indeed make the trip. Will the crowd be a partisan one in Minnesota's favor? I sure hope so, but Golden Gophers fans don't exactly have a history of traveling well. And what will it look like nationally, and to potential recruits, if this so-called 'home game' looks to be neutral. I think that will look poorly. Just look at what Kentucky fans did in Nashville for the SEC Tournament. If you didn't watch that SEC final, almost the entire arena was filled with blue and white. That was a true home game for UK on a neutral floor.
I know the Gophers don't have that sort of rabid following that has grown over decades. But if fans want to help Tubby Smith turn this program into a perennial Big Ten power, they sure better show up in large numbers. I'm hoping they will, but would bet they don't.
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I liked it just fine
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Mar 17, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
and for the sake of hits and google ranks...
ashley judd, ashley judd, ashley judd
erin andrews, erin andrews, erin andres
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
and now for my real comment
Gopher basketball fans have traveled well, when the team has been good. I went to Kansas City back when we were a 1 seed and that place was 75% Gopher fans. Everywhere you went around town you saw maroon and gold. And when they played the rouser it felt like we were in the Barn.
I realize this isn’t a 1 seed team, but this is pretty darn close and Gopher fans really should get down there. Your point about the timing of the game is absolutely correct. Getting to Milwaukee for a Friday 11:30 AM game is tough. But if you are willing to wake up early you can get there and back without spending the night.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
Your distinction about Minnesota fans traveling well when they were a # 1 seed was important. That was true. But here’s a year where they are an average team that’s on a hot streak. I’m mostly just very curious to see what kind of Minnesota turnout there is. I wish the program was at a point where I was confident the “home” site was going to be a definite advantage.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
I sure hope so.
And I hope for a win on Friday, because I’m planning on driving to Milwaukee for Sunday.
Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.
by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Mar 17, 2010 10:01 AM CDT reply actions
wouldn't it be fun to be a #1 seed again?
that season was absolutely the best ever.
How about next year? Can we be a top 2 or 3 seed?
PG – Nolen / Joseph (in no particular order)
SG – Hoffarber / Joseph (in no particular order)
SF – White / Williams
PF – Mbakwe / Carter
C – Sampson / Iverson
I like that top 10 a LOT
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I think we’re better without Al Nolen. Yes, he’s a good defender. But he makes the team 10 times worse with his inept offensive play. The Gophers have executed far better on offense without him.
I also don’t think we know what we have with Mbakwe. And do we really think Royce is coming back?
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
I think that is the craziest thing you have ever said
not that you say many crazy things, but Nolen was so valuable to this team. It took them at least a month to adjust on both ends of the floor. He isn’t a scorer but his assists were high and he pushed the ball well getting us into our offense. Our offense adjusted and eventually the sophomores stepped up, but don’t underestimate what he did offensively for us without scoring.
And I really don’t hesitate to say this. He is the best perimeter defender I’ve ever seen in a Gopher uniform. I know that is bold, but he does so much with his ball pressure and footwork. He shortens the shotclock and makes it difficult for opposing PGs to get their team into an offense.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
haha
I put out some outlandish things occasionally!
On Nolen, I agree he was the team’s best perimeter defender. He was also someone who dragged this team down offensively. They run their sets much better without him. They get the ball into the post much better. And Nolen’s horrid outside shooting allowed defenses to make it more difficult to get the ball inside, because they could sag of off of him.
And look what they’ve done without him. They whipped Wisconsin and Purdue. They went to illinois and won. They beat MSU. They lost by one to MSU and Purdue in previous meetings.
I’d rather have a good defensive team and an OK offensive team without Nolen then an occasionally great defensive team and bad offensive team with him.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
Nolen offers a different matchup
It is pretty clear that Joseph is going to be the starting PG next season. However, Nolen is very useful if you want to shutdown the opposing PG because you can swap Joseph to off-guard and put Hoffarber on the bench. That allows for some fast break points off turnovers with Nolen forcing the TO and Joseph or Williams finishing. Plus, Nolen is flat out better than Justin Cobbs.
agree w/that
Nolen can play a role, for sure, just don’t think he needs to play 25 minutes per game in a starting role.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
they also
got drilled by Michigan, lost to Northwestern and couldn’t hold a late lead against Purdue that didn’t have Hummel.
I don’t think the offense was nearly as bad as you do. I agree they have executed GREAT the last couple weeks. But I think that is more of a function of guys getting it (Joseph, Sampson and even Westbrook). They’ve just gotten better.
And I think we went back to the two man post offense that I don’t remember running much in the first 25 games.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
part of the problem eary in the year
was that Nolen and Westbrook were not listening to Tubby and feeding the post and playing inside out. They were basically playing 3-4 on 5 because they didn’t really use the post player that much. Plus since Nolen isn’t a scorer, it was really 2-3 on 5. No wonder we were not a great offensive team. Nolen should be used as a role player and put in the lineup when there is a PG/SG that really needs to be locked down.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 17, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it's fair to lump Nolen/Westbrook into the same group here
Nolen would make the entry pass to get us into the offense to Westbrook or Hoffarber or Johnson. Those guys (most notably Westbrook) didn’t feed the post. Nolen primarily had the ball at the top of the key which is a terrible post entry location, unless you are playing high/low but they weren’t running that early in the year.
I agree they are feeding the post now, but I think that is a function of the entire team finally buying into this (or finally listening). Not a fault of Nolen’s earlier in the year.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Entry passes
Have to disagree with you that Nolen would make entry passes. He tried from time to time but it many cases they were horribly executed.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
this is my last post
I think his role in the offense rarely had him on the wing with the ball. For much of the season this was a problem for nearly all of the perimeter players. Now that they are doing a much better job is more because Tubby finally go through to all of them, not because Nolen isn’t there. Passing isn’t a problem of his and it’s not like he was passing up the post to take shots.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
now I'm in full on Nolen defense mode
offensively he shoots a bad overall % BUT…
He takes fewer shots per game than anyone else
He gets to the free throw line at a higher rate per game than anybody else
He missed nearly half the season and he’s still second in assists on the team
Our pace is MUCH slower without Nolen we average 9 fewer possessions per game.
AND we are averaging fewer ppg with him out of the lineup
No Nolen – 67.8 ppg
With Nolen – 77.4
With Nolen (taking out 7 terrible teams we played in non-conf) – 70.9
You may like our offense better and we appear to be moving the ball much better lately, but the numbers suggest we score more points with him in the lineup. And there is no doubt our defense is better with him in.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Different competition
+3 points per game is a rather small margin when taking out the out of conference games. And the 67.8 average w/o Nolen came against tougher competition I’m guessing. MSU twice. OSU twice. Purdue twice. NW on the road. Penn State on the road.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
Blessing in Disguise
It took a few weeks for Joseph to grow and learn to truly run the offense. Now that he has, the Gophers are clearly a better team with Nolen on the bench. I would love to see Nolen get Cobbs minutes for his defense only, but having Westbrook, Hoffarber, and Joseph on the floor at the same time really stretches a defense. Thinking we are a better team with Nolen starting at PG is living in the past. Devoe has progressed to the best guard we have right now. Westbrook is playing very well, but he lacks the height to get his shot off when contested.
blessing in disguise
in that Joseph got to learn on the job and over time improved.
but I’m not living in the past. Having someone who creates turnovers, takes care of the ball, gets to the FT line and makes it difficult for your opponent to get in their offense is SO valuable. A guy like that starts and plays a lot of minutes.
Also, if by living in the past you mean over the last 2.5 years he was on pace to be the school’s all-time leader in assists and steals? Then yes, I do remember what he did for this team in spite of shooting poorly (and taking the fewest shots of the top 6 minute guys because he recognizes that’s not his role).
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Same Competition Comparison
Here are the stats for Joseph in the last 5 Gopher games. Nolen played against the exact same teams in 5 of his last 6 games. Here are the average numbers per game:
Joseph Nolen
Team PPG 73.2 69.4
Min. PG 31.4 27.6
Assist PG 2.8 4.4
Steal PG 1.2 2.0
TO PG 2.2 1.8
Pts PG 14.6 7.6
-———————————————————————————————————————————
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I will take the extra scoring provided by Joseph, which I believe has benefitted Iverson more than anyone by not allowing defenses to sag in on him. I remember that teams would dare Nolen to shoot 18’ and out making it very difficult for him to drive to the basket. I also feel Nolen is unable to finish at the rim. He is a very good back-up, but should not be a starting BT PG until he learns to hit a jump shot.
not true
MSU once
OSU once (the loss, not the win)
Pur twice, but 1.5 without Hummel
competition after I factored out the really bad teams is pretty even.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't Nolen
suspended right before the MSU game at Williams Arena? I thought it was a day or two before that game, which would make it MSU twice (at home L and neutral W), OSU twice (away L and neutral L), Purdue twice (home L and neutral W), plus the Ill away win.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 17, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
The MSU game at Williams was either the first or second game sans Nolen.
We also did play OSU twice w/o Nolen. On the road and at home.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
sorry
I realized I discounted the B10 tourney games.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
oops. meant we played OSU twice--once on the road and in BTT Final.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
3 pts per game isn't huge
but it shows the offense isn’t scoring more points now that he’s out. It looks prettier at times, but that’s because everyone else is finally playing better. Based on how ineffective Jospeh, Johnson, Sampson were in the first 2/3 of the season one could argue Nolen was that much more valuable, even on offense.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Carter
Can he step in to the DJ Swat role next year? He’s got the build and the athleticism. Does he have the heart?
Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.
by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Mar 17, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with PJS
PC can give us more offensively. Defensively is a different thing but they’ll net out to be about the same thing. DJ Swat plays great helpside D, but his man-to-man doesn’t usually stand out. He gets steals and blocks shots by helping his teammates but he doesn’t usually shut down his man. I’m not getting down on him, his helpside is VERY good and valuable.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
What home game?
Are we such ‘homers’ that we completely ignore basic geograhy lessons? Or simple math, for that matter? Minneapolis is ONLY 50 MILES CLOSER to Milwaukee than Cincinnati is (Xavier is located in Cinci for those who didn’t know). 50 miles! My Volkwagen TDI can manage that on a single tank of gas. And even with traffic, that’s no more than an hour closer. How can anybody really think that should translate into any sort of home-court advantage. Being a bubble team that sneaks into the NCAA Tournament is (perhaps) slightly more attractive than a football team getting to the Sun Bowl, except that bowl games offer better weather. With our fan base’s traveling history, it seems absurd to expect that Gopher fans will out-travel and out-number Xavier fans just because the game is in Wisconsin.
by Maroon and Old on Mar 17, 2010 12:24 PM CDT reply actions
Yes, Xavier isn't too far either ....
…. but for whatever reason the NCAA selection committee and talking heads view this as a home game scenario for the Gophers
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
Size of each University is probably playing a big role
Xavier is a small enrollment school from the A-10. Minnesota is a large state school from the Big Ten. The Gophers have the ability to bring more fans with them then Xavier does. Thus, the perception is that the Gophers are more likely to have a “home court advantage” then Xavier is. Whether this is true or not is up for debate. Gopher basketball fans haven’t had this kind of opportunity in a long time so there is no telling how they’ll react.
Most U of M students...
…probably won’t attend. So I don’t believe the size of the university has a bearing. More students from Xavier will attend just because they are a smaller school and more a more closely-knit group. Basketball is about all they got going.
what exactly do we have going?
Football? No. Hockey? No.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
By going, I mean more in the big city type going...
…not necessarily sports. I know Xavier is in Cincinnati, but it’s a private school where students do’t go out as much or party as much.
YEAH
think of all the drinking that can be done in Milwaukee!!!!!
:)
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 17, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that students party regardless of the size of school.
And they also chant inappropriate things at games!
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
and we have a much larger alumni base
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
^^^THIS^^^
GN gets what I’m saying. It’s not about number of students, its about overall fanbase size. In addition to the larger alumni base the U is also Minnesota’s ONLY D-I basketball team. Xavier isn’t even the only D-I team in Cincy much less a school with a statewide following by default.
many years we actually have the largest enrollment in the country
problem is you don’t get as passionate of a fan base because of two reasons…
1-high % of commuter students. Not living on campus makes a difference.
2-poor football teams. Studies show that there is a huge increase in overall alumni giving and connection to your alma-mater if FB is consistently successful.
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by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Disrespecting the TDI
It takes only a GALLON of gas to go 50 miles in the VW TDI’s. Not a full tank. Didn’t mean to disrespect my own ride.
by Maroon and Old on Mar 17, 2010 12:27 PM CDT reply actions
hehe
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Mar 17, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If I didn't just get laid off I would totally go
… actually to tell you the truth I’m still trying to find a way to go. This scenario for MN is all too rare.
"If we got to we're going to crawl in this locker room. And on our back is going to be an axe..."
by buddylee853 on Mar 17, 2010 1:17 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Xavier travels well.
I can remember an onslaught of Musketeer fans who descended upon the Metrodome when they played here. (can’t remember the year off the top of my head) And Milwaukee is much closer for them. End result: Unless the Wisconsin homeys decide to back their Big Ten brothers, there will be a negligible advantage.
Not only will I not be going, but I won’t even be able to watch the game – I might be able to follow the 2nd half on the internet (i.e. not watch but follow the score). Bummer, sucks that it’s in the morning, stupid work.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
stupid work
remember you can watch games right here on TDG, though I bet the MN game will be blacked out.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah thanks for that! I’m not in MN so hopefully I can watch the last hour tomorrow!
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Mar 18, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not only MSP
It’s Chicago. Don’t forget Chicago has the 2nd highest amount of U grads in the country.
by Ski U Mah Gopher on Mar 17, 2010 8:23 PM CDT reply actions
good point
I’m really curious to see what the make up of the crowd will be. Also remember that Ohio State is there. Columbus is rather close and we know they travel VERY well. I’m assuming OSU will represent better than anyone, hopefully they’ll be on our side.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 17, 2010 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Call a spade a spade. Gopher fans are cheap as hell. We’ll get OSU support, but I would venture a guess that Gopher fans will be few and far between, even in Milwaukee. Sad, but true.
Commuter school blah blah blah…been to campus lately? It’s a “real school” now! Thousands of more dorm rooms than when I was there.
Gopher fans sicken me…they always have. They’ve never been real fans to me. Sadly, I’m a lifetime Gopher fan growing up in Chicago. I’ll never forgive my dad for leading me down this path.
Some additional thoughts
1.) For what it is worth, I am on PJS side when it comes to the Joseph/Nolen debate. Their is a much bigger drop off in our offense with Nolen on the floor than there is on defense with Joesph on the floor. Also, let’s not give up on Cobbs just yet. He is a freshman after all. Nolen is a very good role player that can be used for significant minutes when we want to press.
2.) Minneapolis – Milwaukee is a MUCH easier commute than Cincinnati – Milwaukee. I used to live in both Minneapolis and Cincinnati and have made the commutes before. Going through Chicago sucks and adds a few hours. That being said, there are a TON of MN grads in Chicago AND Milwaukee. We should have an advantage, but it won’t be overwhelming.
3.) OSU plays in the later session. As someone who often attends the first weekend of the tournament in a random predetermined city, I can attest that most fans won’t show up to a session where their team is not playing. In other words, there should be tickets available for the morning session since OSU is in the evening and their fans would be willing to sell. I think MN will have a fan support advantage. But that won’t matter if we don’t play well.
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