Big Ten Expansion, Pac 10 Expansion...what about the Big 12 orphans?
Assuming Nebraska comes over to the Big X and assuming Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M Oklahoma and Oklahoma State jump to the Pac10; what happens to everyone else? The soon to be former members of the Big 12 (Kansas, Missouri, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State) are all going to end up without a chair in this offseason of musical chairs. What will become of these orphans? Where will they end up?
I'm not sure which schools I feel worst for. Baylor, Iowa State and even Kansas State stand the most to lose largely because of their location, smaller alumni base or lack of meaningful competitive teams over the last several years likely means they will not be sought after by another BCS conference. Baylor and KState have had some recent success in basketball and the Wildcats have had a good run or two in football over the last decade. But overall these universities do not add enough value that any of the BCS conferences will be clamoring for their allegiance.
Missouri doesn't bring with them a long history of athletic success but they are the largest university in their state, they have a foothold in the St. Louis TV market and while they aren't usually dominant they are typically competitive in the major sports. There has been obvious talk of adding Missouri to the Big Ten and that is a very strong possibility, depending on Notre Dame and just how big the BigX wants to expand to.
Kansas is the most fascinating of the 5 Big 12 orphans. I know that football is the driver of all things financial and their football program has been up and down (since the great rebuild by Glen Mason). But we are talking about one of the elite basketball programs in the country that will presumably become the Gonzaga of the midwest (intentional exaggeration). Someone will grab the Jayhawks. This is a program that has won the Insight.com Bowl Orange Bowl in recent years to go along with a basketball national championship.
So where will these schools end up? Who really knows but it is fun to speculate so here is my best guess.
Baylor - I'm afraid that there will be no BCS future for the Bears. The best case scenario for Baylor would be a move to the Mountain West. Maybe the MWC makes a strong effort to replace the Big 12 as a BCS conference. Assume they can add Baylor, Boise State and someone else to get to 12 teams and they finally get that BCS status they so badly desire. Worst case scenario is they end up in the Sun Belt. Conference USA wouldn't be a terrible place to land but CUSA has 12 teams so I'm not sure what their plans would be. The Mountain West is a strong possibility and this may not end up too bad for Baylor.
Iowa State - I fear for Iowa State's BCS future as well. Best case scenario for Iowa State would be an invitation to the Big Ten. Unfortunately for the Cyclones that isn't likely despite the propaganda drive. Worst case would be a move to the MAC. But I think ISU is in store for Independent status in FBS football. I would project membership in the Missouri Valley for most sports and FBS Independence for football. They would still get to schedule Iowa every year and will get a chance to schedule more Big Ten teams as part of their non-conference schedule. Travel costs should go down for all programs but that will more than be offset by the loss of BCS conference revenue. I think this is the school I feel for the most.
Kansas State - Also, not going to a current BCS conference, imo. The Big Ten will not be calling. Kansas State's best chance of joining a BCS conference is to ride the coattails of Kansas. Maybe the Jayhawks will have some persuasive pull and will bring the Wildcats along. If that doesn't work KSU may want to team up with Baylor to push the MWC into prominence. The Mountain West would make a little splash by adding Boise St, Baylor and Kansas State. It wouldn't exactly put them on par with the SEC but they would add some clout and might be a nice boost for their MWC Network.
Missouri - Best case and most likely is a move to the Big Ten. They fit the profile and have been rumored to be one of the next BigX schools anyway. I think if the Big 12 breaks up this is a near certainty. Missouri adds value to the Big Ten and expands the "footprint" without robbing from a conference. This would put the BigX at 13 teams and another would have to be added.
Kansas - Finally we get to Kansas and the question that popped into my mind (and got me thinking about this post) is would the Big Ten bring on Kansas? They have a faithful fan base, they are an AAU member and they would enormously raise the profile of Big Ten basketball.
If it came down to Kansas or Missouri I wonder what the Big Ten would do? It appears as though the Big Ten was making a play for Missouri and wasn't interested in Kansas. So I assume that would still be the case. So it comes down to a numbers game. Do they want to stick at 12 teams? Are they going to add 2 more? 4 more? What is Notre Dame going to do? This game of conference poker is far from over. Are we going to get Jayhawk basketball in the Big Ten? And what is going to happen to the orphans of the conference formerly known as the Big 12.
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The table below highlights some rankings and facts to help evaluate the proposed schools, I added Minnesota just as a Big Ten team to compare the orphan schools. Enrollment can be used to gauge alumni size. For information's sake I thought the table below might be helpful. I know that conferences are not basing expansion on US New or Director's Cup rankings but these are at the very least interesting.
| Enrollment | US News and World Report Rank | Director's Cup Rank | AAU member | TV markets | |
| Kansas | 26,773 | 96 | 98 | Y | Kansas City (32) |
| Kansas State | 23,141 | 100+ | 155 | N | none |
| Baylor | 14,040 | 80 | 38 | N | Dallas ? (5) |
| Missouri | 28,184 | 102 | 54 | Y | St. Louis (21) |
| Iowa State | 25,462 | 88 | 31 | Y | none |
| Minnesota | 50,402 | 61 | 10 | Y | Mpls (15) |
0 recs |
27 comments
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Comments
Overlooking an option
What about the BigEast trying to expand it’s football footprint? I could see them making a bid at the Kansas’s. It would fit their weak football but great basketball mold. They do have basketball members in Chicago (DePaul) and Milwaukee (Marquette). That’s not that much more of a stretch when you’re talking the distances already involved to those two schools.
by formerlyanonymous on Jun 10, 2010 10:50 PM CDT reply actions
Your table
I appreciate how you had to make your table have information in each area, but it isn’t that simple where Missouri is concerned. The Tigers are very popular in Kansas City. And remember, Kansas City, the one that counts, is in Missouri. So Missouri brings both the St. Louis and Kansas City markets along with it if it moves to the Big Ten. Missouri has over 5 million residents, and Kansas has just over that number.
by Mizzou fan in KC area on Jun 10, 2010 11:24 PM CDT reply actions
isn't KC more split?
Kansas is just as close to KC and it is full of Jayhawk fans.
secondly, according to Media market size KC is smaller (32nd) – LINK
Mizz may bring KC, but I think Kansas guarantees KC
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by GopherNation on Jun 11, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a shame that these schools get shafted,
all in the name of the almighty $$$$$. In particular,I feel bad for ISU. The Cyclones overall athletic program is stronger than their instate rival Hawkeyes,who perennially finish last in the Big Ten in the Directors Cup Rankings.
Rebuild Big 12?
Since the Big 12 name is worth a lot, shouldn’t the conference consider rebuilding—poaching 7 teams from other conferences to add to the remaining core of 5 (Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Baylor, and Iowa State)?
Hmmm, I’m heading over to the K-State site to pose this question.
I thought about that but just don't see it happening
B12 loses all of his marquee names (Kansas basketball is the exception). When you lose Tex, OK, Neb that takes the teeth out of the Big 12 “name”. Who would they get to join them? Would they break up the MWC and take the best from that conference? Basically you’d be replacing Tex, OK, Neb with Utah, Boise and TCU.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Jun 11, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Kansas may create their own conference
It would be a basketball first, football 2nd conference but they could pull in Louisville and Cincinnati out of the Big East (which isn’t a football conference) plus possible Texas teams SMU and TCU. They could decide to punt Texas and add Memphis and Tulsa. That could be a very interesting basketball conference:
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Missouri
Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Tulsa
?Boise St ?Utah ?UTEP ?Louisiana Tech ?Baylor ?SMU ?TCU ?Houston
My guess is Boise State moves to Mt West and Utah stays put.
not a bad idea
and really for football, would that be any worse than the current Big East football conference?
Memphis is in a football recruiting hotbed if they could just get themselves into a major conference. Mizz, KU, Cincy and L’ville have all had relative success in the last decade. So that is viable conference. I think they’d bring Baylor along with them.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Jun 11, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
so why wouldn't Kansas just join the Big East?
"Nihilists?... I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude... at least it's an ethos."
Travel would be horrible
Multiple trips to UConn, Syracuse, etc. My guess is the Big East football teams all leave soon. Rutgers and Pitt to Big 10. Syracuse and UConn to ACC. West Virginia will find a home.
The Big 12 Cachet is worth a lot
Why leave for another conference, or form a new conference, when you’ve already got a great brand name. Sure, the product in the box has been reformulated, but who knows. Even with the new ingredients, people might just keep buying the stuff!
by fanoverboard on Jun 11, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
as stated below
to remain a BCS conference they need to retain 6 teams.
Big 12 isn’t nearly the same brand name without it’s BCS status. Even if they stayed BCS you are replacing Tex/OU/Neb with programs that are not in same ballpark. The old Big 12 and the new Big 12 would not have the same cachet, not even close.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Jun 11, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
all depends on
- which teams they add
- whether that 6-team rule will be modified given the catastrophic state of affairs
The simple fact is, any teams and fans joining a reconstituted Big 12 would embrace that cachet and buy anything with that name on it. Remains to be seen if the conference could get an AQ for bowls or negotiate a decent TV contract. It all depends . . .
by fanoverboard on Jun 11, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Partner with the MWC
The new conference and the MWC champs could have a playoff that gets an automatic bid.
I agree with everyone else that these orphans are getting screwed.
But I think they will all end up finding a conference (Mountain West or Conference USA) when it is all said and done.
by MinnesotaCatFan on Jun 10, 2010 11:37 PM CDT reply actions
The only BCS hope for Baylor is if A&M goes to the SEC. Not sure how probable that is, but it’s certainly plausible. The super conservative folks in College Station would be a much better fit in the SEC than in the Pac 10.
Also, no offense to Mizzou, but I would much rather have KU in the Big Ten than the Tigers.
www.gopherfootball.blogspot.com
I would too
but why then was Mizz the target over the last few months and no mention of Kansas? I’m assuming the B10 would rather have the Tigers.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Jun 11, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
It would seem that the only reason the Big Ten takes Kansas over Missouri
is the basketball program. With so many non-conference basketball, there will be plenty of opportunities to play Kansas in basketball if a Big Ten team has that desire, so the basketball just doesn’t matter enough to drive them into the Big Ten.
With Nebraska already in the fold...
is it possible that Mizzou and Kansas could both end up in the Big Ten? It still looks as though Notre Dame is going to remain independent (at least for another year or so), so the B10 could still expand to 14 now, and have room for Notre Dame in a 16 team conference later.
"Nihilists?... I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude... at least it's an ethos."
HS over at BHGP put it best:

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.
by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 11, 2010 8:44 AM CDT reply actions
KU - Worst Case
As a casual fan of KU their situation could be pretty grim. Forget all the assumptions and scenarios and say they get left out of the major shifts to Pac/B10/SEC things get ugly.
Could they go to the Big East and try and play the BBall powerhouse conference angle? Will there be a Big East?
MWC?
I’d be pretty fearful between the realignment and any potential ticket spillover that Self says, “I’m bigger than the MWC/modified B12 and I’m headed to _______ for $4 million/yr. Sorry.”
A potential triple whammy might outweigh The Phog, the tradition and titles and really damage KU.
by InflectionPoint on Jun 11, 2010 9:27 AM CDT reply actions
E!spn.com blogger Adam Rittenberg had an interesting take: why wouldn’t the remaining Big 12 schools (KU, KSU, Mizzou, ISU, Baylor) add the entire Mountain West conference? The Big 12 is contractually obligated to get an automatic BCS qualifier, and as long as the conference exists, I would assume that wouldn’t change. At least for the next three years until the criteria is re-evaluated.
www.gopherfootball.blogspot.com
that's not entirely true
to retain that right, at least 6 teams in a conference need to have played two years with each other during every continous stretch. If there are only 5, I believe they lose their automatic BCS status. Not really sure on the fine points, but someone brought it up over on Rivals Esq.
If Tech stays, then fine. This would probably be best for Texas to let Texas and A&M go where they want to maximize revenue and make sure the rest stay together and keep the Big 12 alive and maintain its BCS status.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 11, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Merge with MWC
Yeah I was just going to post the rules, Evil. Nicely done. I’d wager a petition would get pushed immediately to have the MWC get an AQ.
Otherwise I can easily see them merging with the MWC. Pretty strong football conference, fairly weak in BBall and in overall TV coverage, but got potential.
by InflectionPoint on Jun 11, 2010 10:32 AM CDT reply actions
Kansas football
I don’t know what you all are talking about. Apparently Kansas has a powerhouse football program.
http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/123108aac.html
good point
not just anybody beats the Gophers in their bowl.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Jun 14, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions

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