That Felt Familiar -- Gophers Lose Again
by PJS on Mar 2, 2011 10:04 PM CST
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PrintUse this as an open thread to vent about an 8th loss in 9 games. Truly the most frustrating Gophers season in my lifetime -- and that includes the Dan Monson era.
I'll update this post in the morning with a review of what was yet another late game meltdown. For now I'll just say that I believe this team to be one that wouldn't win with most any other coach, though Tubby certainly isn't without blame. What say you?
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My question
is what did we do to deserve this?
Which basketball god did we piss off?
Formerly thewild_viking_twins. Because my old profile was kidnapped by ninjas, and I was NOT a bad enough dude to rescue it...
60-20 in the closing 18 minutes
Something like that… This game was 34-14 or something plus the previous 26 -6
close enough. and still = pathetic.
by InflectionPoint on Mar 2, 2011 10:45 PM CST reply actions
What I don't understand is...
How has losing two players has turned this Top 25 team into the JV squad? Why is that always the fallback excuse? I understand they were great players, but shouldn’t that be a coaching role – to train kids how to play in the system so when shit hits the fan, we’ve got backups?
It isn’t like this situation was a complete surprise either – Tubby knew about Devoe’s grades/behavior issues and everybody knew of Nolen’s wonky ankle. While I agree that a coach with this exact team dumped in their lap yesterday might not fare any better, Tubby’s been on the job for three years.
Losing Starting PG And Back-Up PG/SG Really Hurts
It’s like losing the engine (and back-up engine) on a race car.
This team was 16-4 and ranked Top 15 in late January.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 3, 2011 4:59 AM CST up reply actions
Shame on me for this...
…but in Tubby’s defense, I think the guys are just flat out fu*&ing up on the court and failing to execute what he’s drawing up. For example, during crunch time the past 6 or 7 tough losses, you’ll notice little things like multiple missed block-outs that lead to put back layups at just critical times, along with horrific shot selection (both on taking awful shots, or NOT taking open shots). Guys not focusing on setting solid picks. Very fundamental things like quadruple-teams of a 6’4" forward in the lane by two 7 footers and our forwards which leaves 4 guys wide open for them to bury a three on us while we are ahead by 2 or tied. Swarming defense that is utterly unnecessary and useless.
So I think Tubby has coached this squad, to a certain degree, the best he can/could…and he just can’t whip the horse any harder or any more frequently to make it go faster. It’s just a “bad race” right now that you shrug your shoulders and go back to the drawing board in the off-season on….
That’s why I just want to end the “fire Tubby” stuff right now. If we’re talking about this next year at this time, fire his ass immediately because there is just no excuse for it. But don’t talk about firing the guy at this point of this particular season after a couple trips to the NCAAs and a string of bad fortune. Next year? Absolutely if things continue to occur like this…but this year? No way. Let things play out…
losing two of your best players would kill ANY team coached by ANYBODY
Mbakwe is our best player, that is clear. But beyond that Nolen was our second best player who made Hoffarber better. Joseph was probably our 4th best player (at least offensively). And with Hoffarber playing out of position or without someone to create for him, we lost some of his value as well.
Any team that loses two of their four best offensive players is going to struggle on offense. They are being replaced with true freshman who are average to begin with.
YES it sucks that the season tanked like it did and there were a few games that were very winable along the way. But I don’t understand how people are confused by how we went from a top 20 team to out of the tournament. It seems pretty obvious.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 3, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
It would be easier to understand...
…if we weren’t so competitive in these games…but I hear you. I think it’s the fact that people watch, we are competitive and winning ALL of these games except OSU…and we just sort of die mid-game or later in the games and it gets people back into thinking we are better than we are.
Chemistry and confidence have killed this team. Driven by loss of Nolen significantly more than Joseph, but as much as I hate to say it, Joseph could have kept Hoffarber and the rest of the team in a more “normal” mode…and would have definitely helped.
Oh well…onward and upward…
we still have some talent
to not get blown out by other mediocre teams. But the margin between winning/losing is razor thin. Missing just a couple pieces makes all the difference in the world.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
by GopherNation on Mar 3, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
"if we weren't so competitive in these games" - Jim
EXACTLY.
We lead all these teams deep, DEEP into the 2nd half.
by InflectionPoint on Mar 3, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
After Three Games
Hoff was obviously a bad choice at PG, yet Tubby left him in there to struggle and hurt the team. He has been very off this year and seems as lost as his players without Nolen.
by Gopher Fan from Wisconsin on Mar 3, 2011 4:56 AM CST reply actions
I agree
I know everyone wants to give Tubby a pass due to the injury to Al Nolen and Devoe’s defection, but he made some really questionable coaching decisions down the stretch. Blake playing PG for several games is one of the primary examples. I know that Tubby has an issue with playing freshmen, but his stubbornness really hurt this team. Maverick at least could have been learning how to be a starting point guard during that time and Blake may have had a better chance to contribute offensively. With so many close losses, it could have made a difference.
You all know my position on this team...
…so I’ll spare you more ranting about lack of heart and basketball IQ….
But I’ll say this, Tubby doesn’t need to continue to call out a guy like Hoffarber at this point. The season is over. Done. It was over officially last week (don’t argue with me on this, the team clearly has checked out, whether voluntarily or involuntarily). So Tubby continuing to ride a guy like Hoffarber to the press, a senior who came into a program during Monson’s era and wanted to help it improve, is very poor form.
If it was the 3rd week of the season, I’d say “fine, go for it, it may motivate him”. But at this point, it’s doing nothing more than making a coaching veteran look stupid. It’s Tubby who puts him at point guard. It’s Tubby who couldn’t seem to make a team that lost it’s point guard and shoved it’s backup 2 point guards off the team (Cobbs and Joseph) perform even MARGINALLY. The least he can do is just let Hoffarber leave the program with some form of dignity. This isn’t how Hoffarber wanted the season to end either…but he seems to be the main guy Tubby is going after.
All in all, it’s just a sad way for the season to end, as it just leaves everybody pointing fingers at everybody else, it gets stupid fans talking about firing Tubby (I disagree with this!!!), it causes administration to field questions about firing Tubby and the future of the program and everything else…when in reality, we just need this particular hellish season to end so we can start next season. I recommend they do nothing but keep doing what they’re doing, good/great class coming in, Walker healthy (well, he’s maybe never going to be healthy, but let’s say “uninjured”!)…Williams won’t be drafted in the lottery like some jackasses predicted…ha ha ha…next season will be excellent. Top 5 finish in the Big 10, NCAA trip, 20+ wins……all are very, very reasonable team goals.
With that, how many days until spring football?
Couldn't have said it better myself...
I don’t even really want them to make the NIT (well i probably do) just get this season over with. Its too bad for players like Blake and Al, but this season has been a complete wash.
BTW, the Twins start in a month, thats 6 months of entertainment in and of itself.
I will say this, I actually don’t want them to play in the NIT. I want as few games as possible to have to watch. As a fan. As a smarter basketball guy, I want them to play in the NIT to get their freshmen experience in a tournament environment of some sort, and to get them the extra game to learn. So I’m mixed….but gun to my head, ok, bring on another game in the NIT…maybe two.
I’m a Sox (white) fan….so I look forward to another battle with the Twins!
Well shit.
Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.
by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Mar 3, 2011 8:52 AM CST reply actions
Frustrating
Watching them pass the ball around the perimeter because none of the guards except Hoffarber can hit an open three pointer was incredibly frustrating.
Mav, Chip, Austin and Rodney all passed up open looks last night
Not that any of them are great shooters, but if you are given an open look beyond the arc, and you name isn’t Ralph Sampson, than I think that it is a shot worth taking. Although Austin Hollins shot looks terrible at times. I hope that somehow he fixes that little hitch before next year.
Nerves
…all over the floor. Just a mess. Nobody has confidence. Season lights out. At this point, Tubby needs to just sit back and tell them to have fun on the floor. Admit the NCAA is a pipe dream, loosen everybody up and let them play basketball. They are playing WAY too tightly wound.
It could even lead to a few victories in the Big 10 tourney. We know the team isn’t a bunch of shitty players. So my default is that they are just too damn nervous on the floor and they need to loosen up. Don’t be afraid to shoot, but don’t alligator-arm it because you’re nervous about missing. Just play basketball….
I know this is putting to stock into 1 shot, but
That pull up jumper that Rodney drilled from just inside the 3 point line was a thing of beauty. I tried to think of the last time I saw that from him, and couldn’t. He even tried an runner coming down the baseline later in the game that he was just a little strong with. If he can find those two shots consistently his game should open up.
But as with all things Rodney has done this year he completely befuddled everyone when he stripped Juice Thompson and had numbers, but decided that his best course of action was to try and run over a Northwestern player committing an offensive foul completly negating his nice defensive play, instead of staying in control and finding an open look. Oh this season…why won’t you stop tormenting me???!?!?!?!?!?
Look at BYU
they lost one of their best players and the #3 team in the country was drilled by New Mexico! One would think that the #3 team in the country could lose their 3rd best player and still manage to beat New Mexico, or at least not lose by 18.
Point is losing key players really changes the complexion of teams.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
End of Games
Marcus really hits it on the head…look at how the Gophers played at the end of close games. Al Nolen would take the ball to the hoop and get to the foul line or kick it to an open shooter. WHO do we have that can do that? Remember last year when Nolen was out? Who did we turn to at the end of games…Devoe Joseph.
Tubby isn’t perfect but want to know why we can’t execute at the end of close games? We don’t have the one guy or the second guy who could do that before.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
Mav.
Gulp… I’m beginning to think the minute Nolen went down we should have gone to (gasp!) a PG to fill his role.
I don’t care how green Mav was, he was the best PG option. Mav can move with the ball which is something no one else (save Chip) can do.
It most certainly is hindsight, but perhaps Mav should have been starting long ago?
by InflectionPoint on Mar 3, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
it didn't really help at all last night
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
Gophers should have...........
recruited Leuer and Taylor from their own backyard. Yeeesh!!
Both Were Committed To Wisky B4 Tubby Arrived In 2007
Leuer and Hoffarber were offered schaolsrhip by D Monson. First to commit got the scholarship.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 3, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting statistics...Free Throws...
Teams shooting high free throw percentages against us has befuddled me all season. I’ve been upset about the 3 pointers too, but teams’ 3 point percentages have actually not been out of line. Sure, they may shoot a ton of them, but their percentage has not been substantially out of line. However, I’ve found myself sitting on the couch saying “man teams always hit all their free throws against us!”…and decided to do some digging.
Here is the breakout:
WINS:
MN – (Total) 18.4 ftm/ 28.6 fta = 64.2 %
OPP 10.4/14.5 = 72 %
MN – (Non conf) 17.9/28.6 = 62.5%
OPP 11.1/16/3 = 68.2 %
MN – (conf) 19.2/28.5 = 67.3 %
OPP 9.2/11.2 = 82.1%
LOSSES:
MN (total) 11.2/16.3 = 68.7%
OPP 15.3/20.0 = 76.7%
MN (non conf) 12/20 = 60%
OPP 25/30 = 83.3%
MN (conf) 11.1/15.9 = 69.7%
OPP 14.5/19.1 = 75.7%
Those are the numbers without bias. What I see is that (also without bias!) (a) overall, teams are shooting 74.3% on free throws against us for the entire year, and 77% when they win. 74% would place 36th in the nation in FT shooting, and 77 puts someone in the top ten. This just seems like an anomally that we cant control, but doesnt account for losses on its own. Of more interest to me is (b) In wins, we shoot, on average, 12 more free throws per game, and we make 7 more. In losses, the opponent shoots 6 more FTs per game but make 5 of those. That is a 12 point swing on FTs between wins and losses. Considering that the percentages remain pretty consistent between W and L, getting to the line seems to be a major factor for us. This is consistent with the complaint that we don’t have that “drive to the basket at all costs” guy like a Westbrook or Nolen. We tend to bail teams out with bad jump shots.
It also tells me, WTF are our “big men” doing shooting so many jump shots, too weak to power drive to the rim?
That also explains
Tubby’s frustration with Blake. The guy gets so overplayed/blanketed and is so very predictable/passive with the ball, he should be able to draw more fouls and get to the FT line where he excels.
how should he draw more fouls?
he isn’t quick enough to get by his defender and get to the lane or the rim. Rodney is the guy who “should” bet blowing by his man and drawing contact in the lane.
Great stats and once again proves just how much we miss Al Nolen. We were good with him, he was able to help hide some of our warts. Without him we are exposed and nobody was capable of stepping up. Adding Joseph back in the mix would not have given us someone to replace what Al does. But he is talented on his own and would have been able to be that #2 scorer that teams have to defend. That would also have opened up Hoffarber to get a few more open shots. Right now we have two guys you need to defend, even a mediocre Big Ten team can handle that.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
100% about Rodney
I watch RW every game hoping for him to drive, but he obviously has NO confidence in his own ball-handling. I would love if he would risk a turnover every once in awhile just to practice driving, but he never moves with the ball. I’d say fairly certain that he averages one drive to the basket per game. He could add a whole new dimension to his game that way.
GN
have you ever seen Hoff try and get his defender off the ground and go into him for automatic FT’s?? Have you ever seen Blake fight back with the ball to hold his ground? Have you ever seen Blake initiate contact with the ball that would result in a foul?? NO to all of them. The guy is not a physical player and as a result defenders can get away with murder. If you want to see what I am talking about, watch that freshman PG from OSU (Craft or Croft I believe). BH is “quick enough” to get by his defender bc they overplay the crap out of him. He is as soft in the backcourt as RS3 is in the frontcourt. Granted, he has been asked to be someone he has never been before, and I have tried to cut him slack, but man, it has been tough post-Nolan to watch. All that said, I am very upset about Tubby calling him out in public lately. You can probably feel my frustration with the current state of affairs.
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