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The Redshirting Conundrum

Phil Miller had an interesting nugget in his latest blog entry talking about the possibility of redshirting some of this year's freshman class.

  When Jerry Kill took over at Southern Illinois a decade ago, he decided for the long-term health of the program to ignore his instinct to play his best players. Anyone who could redshirt did so, and the result was a 1-10 season -- and a brighter future.
     He's chosen a different path at Minnesota, though, mostly because the Gophers don't have enough depth on the roster to compete without help from the freshmen. So Saturday's parade of youngsters was more than an audition for the bench -- it was a preview of what fans will see this season.

I really hope this isn't fully true.  If a player is going to be a starter or at least a regular who rotates in getting nearly as many snaps as the starter, then they absolutely should play as a true freshman.  But anyone else really needs to be redshirted, even if the MIGHT play this year.  Let's go player by player and I'll tell you who should or shouldn't be redshirting this year.

  • QB - Max Shortell - there have been a lot of reports out of fall camp that Shortell appears to be the #2 to MarQueis on the depth chart.  But I beg coach Kill to redshirt the young man.  If his philosophy at NIU was to bite the bullet in year one for the future, then you have no business burning a year of Shortell's eligibility.  This isn't about depth and being able to field a team.  You have Gray as the starter, even if Jeffrick thinks he's going to be worse than Weber.  You have Tom Parish as a backup.  Shortell may be better than Parish but bite the bullet!  Let Parish struggle this year if Gray goes down.  And if Parrish goes down let Moses Alipate struggle through it.  But redshirt Shortell using him only if you absolutely have to.
  • QB - Dexter Foreman - easy call to redshirt, he is nowhere near the 2-deep.  In face I see a position change in Mr. Foreman's future, he should do it now and redshirt.
  • RB - David Cobb - the story of the scrimmage with a 62-yard TD run and was one of the players mentioned in Miller's article.  He may be the exciting young running back who deserves come carries this year.  But unless he is the clear-cut #2 behind Bennett and the staff plans to give him 80+ carries then give him a year to develop both as a running back and from a strength perspective.  An extra year to give his body more protection against the blows it will be taking from Big Ten linebackers can only minimize his chance of injuries.  We have other running backs in LaMonte Edwards and Donnell Kirkwood and Devon Wright.  Let them get carries this year and let Cobb compete next year.  There is a difference between deserving some carries and being too good to keep off the field.  Unless he is the latter, let him redshirt.
  • WR - Devin Carwford-Tufts - this is a tough one but once again I'm leaning towards redshirting.  DCT has speed that may get him on the field this year and this position is dangerously thin.  But he needs a year to grow and get stronger.  Another year to hone his skills will make him better and I really rather have another four years instead of learning on the job this year and having just three remaining.  You may have to play him if an injury or two occurs but otherwise he needs to redshirt.
  • WR - Marcus Jones - Jones will play because he is our best slot receiver and it is worth noting that he has been here since January.  Having those extra months of being in a college level strength program and spring practice to get better has put him in a position to not only play this fall but start.  He will start and he will have an impact as a true freshman.  I'm more than OK with Jones using up year 1 of eligibility this fall.
  • TE - Drew Goodger - Redshirt.  Depth is a bit of a concern but Eric Lair is very good and I think Sahr Ngekia will get snaps along with Collin McGarry and maybe John Rabe.  I have not heard any reports that Goodger is making a play for playing time, he should and will redshirt.
  • OL - Tommy Olson and Josh Campion - I hope they redshirts but they also fall into the class of if they are too good to keep off the field, then play them.  But if at best they are a back up guard this year then let them redshirt.  Again, the point is to stock the team for future use.  Campion is a year older and may be somewhat more physically ready to play than the rest of the freshmen linemen.  Olson may just be that talented and skilled that he could play as a true freshman.  Both of them may earn a spot along the 2nd team OL, but give them an extra year if at all possible. 
  • OL - Joe Bjorklund, Kyle McAvoy, Luke McAvoy and Foster Bush - redshirt all of them.
  • LB - Peter Westerhaus, Jephte Matilus and Quinn Bauducco - linebacker is an area of strength and depth.  Let them redshirt, let them get bigger/stronger/faster.
  • DE - Thieren Cockran and Michael Amaefula - both of these guys are pass rush type ends but they are way too small to play this year.  Thieran Cockran looks like Damian Johnson with shoulder pads.  Both of these guys need a year (or two) to put on a lot of weight and muscle.  
  • DB - Cedric Thompson, Grayson Levine, Derrick Wells and Steven Montgomery - This position is less about size and more about technique.  They all will redshirt to hone their skills of pass coverage.  They all could use a year to get stronger but a year of learning the trade will greatly benefit this group of DBacks.
  • JUCO WRs - Malcolm Moulton, Ge'Shun Harris - play them.  Moulton and Harris are huge areas of need and reports are that both have at times shown they'll be regular contributors.  
  • JUCO TE - John Rabe - probably should redshirt but he may need to play.  Unlike the freshman, if Rabe is worth of being #2 on the depth chart then he should play.  I'm not exactly sure how things will shake out behind Lair so if Rabe is the 2nd team TE then use this year of eligibility.

Most of the decisions to redshirt or not seems pretty simple.  After looking at all of the players there really shouldn't be too many true freshman who see any playing time.  The hard decisions seem to fall around Shortell, Cobb, Jones and maybe a couple of the linemen.  I believe the only freshman on the list who should play this fall is Marcus Jones.  The rest should be stock piled for the future.  Guys like Shortell, Cobb, Campion and Olson may be good enough to earn some snaps but unless they are so good that they potentially are the difference between winning and losing...REDSHIRT THEM.

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Good post, great topic

Zero chance Marcus Jones redshirts. I’ll go with “very unlikely” that Max Shortell does as well. But if Parish really is close to as good, then I’m on board with the argument. As far as Tommy Olson, and the other guys warranting consideration of PT this year, doesn’t the coaching staff always have the option of “removing the redshirt” if necessary on account of mid-season injuries elsewhere? That seems like the prudent move for most of these guys.

Journalism. Enhanced.

by MNdailyGuy on Aug 22, 2011 5:10 PM CDT reply actions  

"Removing the redshirt"

Players don’t have to be “tagged” as a redshirt. A redshirt is only determined at the end of a season if the player didn’t play. He can sit on the sideline all season and never play a down and he will be a redshirt. As soon as he plays a down of football he’s no longer eligible for a redshirt. This obviously doesn’t apply to medical redshirts, etc.

"We're talking about unchecked aggression here, Dude."
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by JDMill on Aug 23, 2011 6:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Campion and Olson

won’t both redshirt. I’m skeptical either of them will, but both of them certainly won’t. We have 6 linemen in this class; it wouldn’t hurt to spread it out a bit. I also think we almost have to play one of the secondary guys, due to total lack of depth.

I think Gophers fans have become a little too reflexively oriented to redshirting because we’ve seen it done to great success at Iowa and Wisconsin. I tend to agree, but I also want to see the coaches concerned with winning the game in front of them above all else. If a kid is good enough to beat out the guys in front of him and make a serious contribution (Shortell and Olsen seem to be examples of this) then I think you play them. The more we win now, the better we’ll be able to recruit to replace them in 4-5 years.

Winning cures everything.

by Gophermike on Aug 22, 2011 6:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Great point...
we’ve seen it done to great success at Iowa and Wisconsin

The problem for Kill is that he doesn’t have nearly the depth that those schools have at most positions. Hopefully we can get there one day.

"We're talking about unchecked aggression here, Dude."
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@jdmill

by JDMill on Aug 23, 2011 6:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree with all those redshirts

The Gophers should not redshirt all there freshman. Shortell should be redshirted even if he is slightly better then Parish because no way he starts this year. All the linebackers listed should redshirt as we have more then enough quantity and quality at the position already but certain positions freshman are more apt to play in straight out of high school. Mostly the skill positions. No way Cobb should redshirt if he is doing as well as stated. Many of the top backs in college every year are true freshman and Cobb might end up being the best RB on the team. Also WRs tend to be able to play as true freshman if DCT is better then most on the roster he should play if not redshirt him as I just dont think we are as thin at WR as everyone has been saying. We have 7 WRs that can play Mcknight, Green, Keise, Harris, Moulton, Barker, and Jones(a freshman who is not redshirting for sure). Lastly although it is rare for freshman Oline to play either Campion or Olson whomever is currently more ready to play should not redshirt this year. A couple of reasons is lack of D1 depth on the line, it gives us one more guard. Plus all of our current starters on the interior are seniors it would be nice to return one of them next year with some real game experience and who knows by the end of the year either could be better then the current starters. The last player I dont think because of the good press he has been getting is Derrick Wells. We could use one more corner this year and if put in the right situations dime packages for sure passing downs Wells could learn just a small amount of the defensive playbook and still contribute this year as well as get some experience. I never believe in redshirting all your freshman its the reason this team has so few juniors is Brewster redshirted everyone in 09. A few freshman should be allowed to play because they can contribute and even out the classes.

by DickTwin on Aug 22, 2011 7:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I just dont think we are as thin at WR as everyone has been saying

What makes you say that? I’m not sure that because we have 7 guys who can lineup at WR, that we have 7 guys who can produce at WR. You’re going to see a lot of 3 & 4 WR sets with this offense. Limegrover hasn’t traditionally used a TE much for pass catching, but admittedly will probably have to use Lair because of his talent. For argument’s sake, let’s say that gives them 8 guys who could potentially line up in pass-catching situations. If DCT can produce numbers in the top half of that group, I don’t think there’s any way he doesn’t play this year.

But again, Kill doesn’t necessarily have to make those decisions now.

"We're talking about unchecked aggression here, Dude."
Off Tackle Empire
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@jdmill

by JDMill on Aug 23, 2011 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gray

will be back at WR by mid season….

GN, I agree with you completely, red shirt the hell out of these guys and eat 2011-2012. Give these guys the extra year to learn the game and grow physically.

Alipate….man that is a disappointing story. I thought he was a canon arm who would at some point at least be in the conversation….

by jimipig on Aug 23, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's another lock

“Gray … will be back at WR by mid season … "

And that is just as certain as the fact Decker almost beat USC last year.

by DACGold on Aug 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Gray at receiver...

…isn’t exactly the most controversial statement to make given what’s developing at QB. So I seek your input DACGold…will Gray sit the bench in this scenario, or be out on the field at WR? What say you?

But Kill seems more impressed with the improvement of freshman quarterback Max Shortell through fall camp. Kill even said after practice Tuesday that Shortell needs to be ready to play. Whether that is in the Sept. 3 season opener at Southern California, he wouldn’t say. “We’ll have to see how he progresses,” Kill said of Gray. “That’s something I can’t answer. The best news we have is that the freshman is progressing very well. Shortell had a very good practice last night, and he had a very good practice today. He’s going to have to be available. And he knows that.”

by jimipig on Aug 24, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brilliant and Hilarious!

So well done and creative DACGold…I am without words. I came clean, admitted error, was embarrassed…not sure what else you’d like to do to put that behind us…but I digress.

In other news….I found this interesting…and good for Adam, who I liked as a person but hated as a QB.

"If everything was totally equal, and this were a competition based only on performance at this camp, Tebow would probably be the fourth-string guy," one source told Silver. "Kyle [Orton] is far and away the best, and Tebow’s way behind [Brady] Quinn, too. And I’m telling you, Adam Weber is flat-out better right now." Weber, an undrafted rookie, has no chance to actually pass Tebow on the depth chart. But Weber has looked impressive when given the chance, and Tebow is struggling to work under center or grasp a pro offense.

by jimipig on Aug 23, 2011 4:08 PM CDT reply actions  

re: Weber

Nice! I hope he makes the practice squad this year and gets a shot to make the team next year.

by GreasyLlama on Aug 23, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Normally I would never want to see a true frosh OL on the field

That being said if you think the kid is physically able to not get absolutely rocked, and is probably going to be leaned on as a starter next year it isn’t a horrible idea to get him some reps at the price of an extra year of eligibility . Campion was originally a class of ‘09 freshmen who commited back in 2007 for Christ sake, so it isn’t like the kid isn’t old enough and probably fairly developed after presumably hitting the weights last year at FUMA and under coach Klein since last winter. I would say redshirting him would almost be a mistake. As for the young Olson, if he is as advanced as billed he has an inside track for the starting job and getting him some reps might not be the worst thing in the world. I don’t think he is going to be the next Seantrel and start 9 games as a true freshmen, but some quality minutes at this level will prepare him for next year, and lets face it we will be in garbage time this year, likely on the wrong end of it.

As toward the tight ends, Limegrover used 2 tightend sets nearly 50% of the time during his last year at NIU. I can’t see us under any circumstance not playing Rabe, and perhaps even the true freshmen given our depth at that position in relationship to what they have done in the past.

by ulf on Aug 24, 2011 2:58 AM CDT reply actions  

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