The Future of The Gopher Backcourt, Freshman Guards Under Tubby Smith
There have not been very many bright spots this year for the Gopher basketball team. What began as a season of promise quickly vanished with the tear of a ligament in Trevor Mbakwe's knee. But as we get past the half-way point of the Big Ten season (and two-thirds of the way through the regular season), maybe there is some hope for the future and a glimmer of hope for this one yet. I do believe that we are watching the maturation of a couple freshman guards who could become key components if the Gopher basketball program is to have any significant success in the next few years.
Joe Coleman is having a very nice freshman season for the Gophers. He started out rather slow, earned himself a spot in the starting lineup and has blossomed into one of the leaders on the floor for the Golden Gophers. But not to be forgotten in Andre Hollins who has had a very different freshman season so far. He earned the starting PG job early but slowly saw his playing time diminish as he struggled at the start of Big Ten play but he too is starting to show signs of why he was Tennessee's Mr. Basketball and a reason for Gopher fans to be excited about the future.
Neither of these two are exactly lighting the Big Ten on fire but I do believe they are showing what they are capable of and they are going to be very good players for the next four years. I believe there is reason for backcourt optimism.
Let's start with Joe. The Hopkins product has really been a catalyst for some renewed enthusiasm for the 2011-12 team. After Mbakwe went down this team was really searching for an identity and some toughness. It took a while but once Coleman was inserted into the starting lineup he finally gave this team the toughness it was missing. Is he having a freshman season like say Cody Zeller of Indiana or Trey Burke at Michigan? No, but just because he isn't going to be considered for any national all-freshman teams doesn't mean that he isn't having an outstanding season that could be a portend of great things.
His freshman numbers are actually very good especially when compared to several other freshman guards in the Tubby Smith era. I compiled the stats for only the first 10 Big Ten games of Devoe Joseph, Austin Hollins, Chip Armelin and then this year's freshmen Andre Hollins and Joe Coleman (numbers are below the jump). This is obviously a very small sample size but I also think it is a fair comparison to get an idea of where Coleman and Hollins are at in their progress and how Tubby is using them compared to the rest on that list.
Joe's numbers jump out and dominate. He leads that group in scoring, rebounding, FG%, steals and minutes played. And the number that probably jumps off the page more than anything else is how many times he has gotten himself to the free throw line. He has used his aggressiveness to get to the line 55 times in 10 games. The other four guards combine for 36 free throw attempts! But this is the kind of contribution that was expected of Coleman if he was going to be given the opportunity. Coleman had this to say way back in October on the Gopher's public practice to open the season (whatever their Midnight Madness equivalent was called).
"I'm going to be an aggressor. I'm going to try to get to the line, get to the basket a lot and help my team anyway I can."
This he has done. Coleman is getting to the line, making his free throws and doing a number of other things very well to contribute to the Gophers getting back on track. If he is to continue to get better his three-point shooting will need to dramatically improve. But given his reported work ethic I actually expect this to improve with an offseason to focus on it. I am absolutely ecstatic to watch Coleman over the next four years as I think he will be an outstanding Gopher.
His backcourt mate is, of course, Andre Hollins. The Tennessee Mr. Basketball was given the starting PG job to start the season. After a minor injury and a period where he wasn't playing his best basketball he lost his starting spot. But to be fair he has still been relatively productive, enough to lead me to believe that he will still have a very nice Gopher career. Also from the season opening practice, Tubby had this to say about his freshman point guard.
"Very strong, very physical and he's a leading candidate to start for u sat the point guard spot. Can score, you know we really didn't have that last year, we didn't have a real scoring point guard."
I was a little surprised to see just how similar Dre's first 10 B1G game stats were to those of Devoe Joseph's. Both averaged 1.3 reb, 1.4 assists and turnovers were nearly identical. I kind of think these two are similar, yet different players. Hollins is more of a "get to the basket" kind of guy while Joseph is a better shooter. But both are in the mold of a scoring guard slash point guard.
| Min | FGM-FGA | FG% | 3PM-3PA | 3P% | FTM-FTA | FT% | Reb | Ast | Stl | TO | Pts | |
| Devoe Joseph | 16.0 | 20-48 | 0.417 | 9-27 | 0.333 | 0-1 | - | 1.3 | 1.4 | 1.1 | 1.9 | 4.9 |
| Andre Hollins | 15.1 | 15-47 | 0.319 | 5-19 | 0.263 | 14-15 | 0.933 | 1.3 | 1.4 | 0.9 | 1.8 | 4.7 |
Devoe had slightly more points and was a better three-point shooter. But Andre actually gets to the FT line and has slightly fewer turnovers. All to say that if we can start getting 12-14 ppg out of Hollins over the next few years, similar to the production that Joseph put out, then we'll all be pretty happy with him as a solid scoring option. Like Coleman, I expect his three-point shooting to improve. It will not get to the same level as Joseph, but Hollins will be a more complete player in my opinion.
The stats for all five players are at the bottom for your enjoyment. These numbers, to some extent, and watching both of them progress throughout the season lead me to believe that they are both going to be very good players. Both are talented enough to be all-conference caliber players but neither are quite good enough to be leaving early for the NBA. These are the kinds of kids you can build around and who can really lead a team in their upper-classmen years.
More quotes from Tubby at the beginning of the season.
"I can’t say enough about how committed and how dedicated those two guys are. They never missed anything. They never missed a class, a meeting, a workout."
"We only have 2 freshman and they're really very talent and they are men of character. Guys that are working extremely hard, they came in the summer and lifted and did all the things we asked him to"
"In tough times you have to have people that are going to be able to withstand a lot of distractions, can handle the peaks and the valleys. I thin men of character, people that come from backgrounds where they understand and they appreciated what they've accomplished and what's available to them at the U. And are committed and dedicated to doing things the right way. That's what I like about these guys, they are good people."
Those quotes were noteworthy enough that I saved them back in October and nothing I have seen to day leads me to believe that every word of it isn't true. Add to these two the toughness of Elliott Eliason and the shooting of Oto Oseneiks and you can start to see some of the puzzle pieces. More needs to be added, especially on the interior where we currently have no real scoring options as I look ahead. In fact if Mbakwe comes back, next year could be a very exciting season.
Now, here is where I try to reign in my enthusiasm. These guys are not there yet. They are not going to be named on any All-American lists before they are done (or it is VERY unlikely but you never know). There are plenty of things they need to work on. Both need to become better shooters, both need to work on their ball-handling and both need to get stronger as they prepare for 30+ minutes every night. But I am liking what I'm seeing and I think the future of the Gopher backcourt is in better shape than people are currently feeling.
stats I referenced...
| Min | FGM-FGA | FG% | 3PM-3PA | 3P% | FTM-FTA | FT% | Reb | Ast | Stl | TO | Pts | |
| Devoe Joseph | 16.0 | 20-48 | 0.417 | 9-27 | 0.333 | 0-1 | - | 1.3 | 1.4 | 1.1 | 1.9 | 4.9 |
| Andre Hollins | 15.1 | 15-47 | 0.319 | 5-19 | 0.263 | 14-15 | 0.933 | 1.3 | 1.4 | 0.9 | 1.8 | 4.7 |
| Joe Coleman | 22.7 | 24-53 | 0.453 | 0-3 | 0.000 | 43-55 | 0.782 | 3.8 | 1 | 1.3 | 1.3 | 8.9 |
| Chip Armelin | 10.2 | 15-40 | 0.375 | 0-8 | 0.000 | 2-5 | 0.400 | 1.1 | 1.1 | 0.3 | 0.2 | 3.2 |
| Austin Hollins | 11.8 | 12-30 | 0.400 | 2-13 | 0.154 | 12-15 | 0.800 | 1.1 | 0.3 | 0.9 | 0.9 | 3.8 |
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I share your enthusiasm for these two guys
but they are cut out of the same cloth. There is nobody that can pass the ball on this team. The #100 assist per game player in the country averages 4.5 per game. More than double anyone on the Gophers. This team needs to develop a PG—-I still think Dre is our best option but I have not seen any progress to date, I believe Tubby sees this and that is why he is encouraging the guys to get out and run more in transition. It plays to all the guards’ strengths—-slashing and driving to the hoop. Of course I am going to contradict myself here, but Chip has pulled off two of the most ridiculous assists I have ever seen in Maroon and Gold.
Assists
While it is true we don’t have Ricky Rubio on the Gopher’s, I don’t think that means we have “nobody that can pass the ball on this team”. They lead the Big Ten in total assists 383, granted they have played one more game than some teams, so their average per game puts them tied for 2nd in the conference. They are tied for 19th in the NCAA as well, which as far as I can tell is their highest statistical ranking of any stat.
GE
you have to have a Rubio wanna-be. You have to have a QB/coach out on the floor. That is the main reason for the infamous “FSO” and why the last minutes of a game can be torture to watch. I guess my main point lately is I sure would like to see Hollins develop into a legit PG and to date, haven’t seen it.
I think
…it is more a factor of Tubby’s offensive scheme than it is an indictment of the players. Tubby’s offensive game plan isn’t all that conducive to one player handling the ball and creating for others. We do have a lot of assists as a team, as GE points out, there just aren’t any gaudy assist numbers from one particular player.
Unfortunately, we are also last in turnovers. I think this is what happens when your guards are freshmen and sophomores.
I think the sort of player you are talking about is the exception rather than the rule. How many pass-first PGs are in the NBA today? I would say fewer than half the teams have a starting PG that is a pass-first type of guard. It just isn’t as common as one would intuitively think.
I probably should have thrown
in the phrase “handle the ball” (lack of) in the above post. More TO’s than assists in your backcourt is not good.
Turnovers
But yes…I agree they need to fix the turnover problem. They lead the league in turnovers.
I'm not sure that's all the fault of the guards
I have been tempted to throw things at the TV the past 3 games because of the number of times they have gotten the ball to the post player on the block only to see the post player turn it over. If you’re on the block DON’T PASS TO THE MIDDLE OF THE LANE!
Not to mention
Bring the ball down to your waist if you are a 7 footer. Especially if you don’t have the arm strength to protect the ball from a guard playing help defense.
Upside down
Tex, I respectfully suggest you are seeing things upside down. The reason for the FSO is not lack of point guard play. What you perceive to be lack of point guard play is primarily the result of FSO. FSO is guaranteed by Tubby’s use of the post man away from the post. If you could see into Tubby’s heart you would see what he prizes most highly in Ralph is his passing away from the basket.
We have three point guards. Mav is a real one and his performance has not been nearly as bad as often portrayed here. Both Julie and Andre probably prefer shooting guard but both can perform adequately as point guards. Julie can take it strong to the hole. It just doesn’t look like point guard play because there is no post man to crash and take the feed after the defense converges on the guard. Julie and Rodney should be able to pull this off five times a game but Rodney seems oddly uninterested at times.
Andre showed great confidence taking care of the ball at crunch time in the huge Illinois win. He looks like the PG next year. You just do not get recognized as Tennessee Player of the Year without being a great talent.
We’ve got point guards. Tubby must admit it and abandon FSO — and that means playing a post man in the post — in order for the PG to look natural.
Mo Walker might be the post man they need
Ralph’s complete inability to do anything in the post makes the FSO so damn unwatchable. From what I remember of Mo Walker his post play was pretty good. You can’t say he doesn’t have the size to bang in the post, but can he post people up and get good looks is the question that needs answering. If he can a lineup of Dre Hollins, Austin Hollins, Coleman, Rodney, and Mo might be pretty damn athletic and tough.
Mo's definitely got the potential
Hopefully he’s been working on his offensive game.
As it’s my thing, I will mention again that he should be looking at tape of Randy Carter.
I like the other young guys too
Eliason, Hollins and Coleman are going to get 4 years together.
Don't forget ...
Oto. He is also going to be with them four years. Something tells me Oto might be the one we really remember before he leaves.
Don't agree with either of you
Oto will stay and be a contributor off the bench. He already has value there now, but doesn’t look like a guy who would leave and be a star down a step.
Mav and Chip are still much more likely transfers.
Oto is going to be solid
very good shooter, plays solid D, rebounds well and seems like a coachable kid. I think he’ll grow into a very good shooter who isn’t going to beat anyone off the dribble.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
I'v heard...
…he’s a good shooter. I just haven’t seen anything close to it. He looks lost and over-matched out there most of the time.
I hope you are right—and he is a freshman (a 22 year-old one at that) so perhaps he can improve, but I don’t see the same talent I see on the rest of the roster.
He reminds me of Melky Cabrera (different sport, I know). People kept talking about how we was going to be a star, but I never saw anything that was close to evidence for it.
But
I thought OTS was a lock for B1G coach of the year ;) So he’s obviously doing the best with what he has. Hate to say it, but the offense is better off when Ralph is not on the court. He’s still a pretty solid defensive presence, however.
Journalism. Enhanced.
I have to disagree
And think that’s exactly backward. Ralph will swat a shot or two away from the weak side, but he has trouble playing physical post defense, and tends to be too eager to leave his feet on help defense.
But he can knock down the occasional shot to help on offense.
daily, on the contrary ...
Elliot is a stronger and more fundamentally sound defensive postman than Ralph. He’s pretty tough down there. Of course he’s not the scorer now that Ralph is/can be but to make a true comparison you need to deduct Ralph’s soft turnovers standing around holding the ball down by his knees. On balance, Elliot is at least as good overall now as Ralph and maybe just a bit better. The best strategy is to play most of the first half where he seems to score a few buckets in easy time and then go with Elliot most of the second half when you can’t afford the 5th grade girl turnovers.
Mo is just a dream at this point. A guy who hasn’t played most of two seasons may or may not have developed. And we did not see enough of him early last year to know for sure just how good he is. Let’s hope but you can’t count on it.
Correction on above
Should read, "The best strategy is to play Ralph most of the first half …. ".
Some other drunk observations...
I always get to these discussions way too late. But, my observations watching throughout the year is that if Mbakwe was still on the team the assist total would be even higher for these guards…or at least the assist to turnover rate would be better. I think the most underrated aspect of Mbakwe was his hands/catching the ball in traffic. Unless this team is running in transition (which happens not as often as we wish)…this team relies on having to hit jump shots. There’s no inside game. There’s the occasional out of bounds play or offensive rebound, but no real play is going on in the post.
I mean we’re not even good at the high/low game anymore because we throw crappy passes, but if we do actually mix in a good pass the guy fumbles it around or doesn’t maintain his position on the defender…thus defender goes around or through to steal ball.
by Shawn Bradley Guy on Feb 7, 2012 4:21 PM CST reply actions
hands have really improved
because he fumbled, bobbled, dropped a number of post entry passes a year ago.
I am REALLY starting to get excited about this team next year if Mbakwe is allowed to come back.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you The Daily Gopher
If we get Mbakwe back
…we could be REALLY good. Even without, the development of our freshman/sophomore guards along with EE and (hopefully) Mo would give us more to look forward to.

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